tekaye wrote:
Didn't he abuse Michael?
from what i understand, yes, so i have mixed feelings about him. i'm sorry for any parent who has to bury their child, but i also feel like he was partially the cause of a lot of michael's problems.
Joe Jackson outside his CA home
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 franknbeans82 |
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Posts: 30809 (06/27/2009 9:54 PM) |
from what i understand, yes, so i have mixed feelings about him. i'm sorry for any parent who has to bury their child, but i also feel like he was partially the cause of a lot of michael's problems. |
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itsjustcris |
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Posts: 148 (06/27/2009 10:22 PM) |
As for abuse, Joe called them spankings...Jermaine even said they were spankings...However, I think the "spankings" were too much for a person as
sensitive as Michael. He couldn't take it. I think every spanking he got just hurt his soul.
I don't blame Joe too much. I think he disciplined his children the best way he knew how (as flawed as it may have been). He didnt want them in the streets, he didn't want them doing drugs, etc. Harsh as his form of discipline was, in the end, the kids knew he loved them..Just in the only way he knew how..By disciplining them to make sure they made something of themselves.. Based on my research, unfortunately, I think in many black homes, that was (and for many still is) the way to go about disciplining children. It's what their parents did, and so on. I think a lot of that has roots back in slavery times where the master whipped (or threatened) the slaves as a way of "discipline" and it just stuck. It could also be attributed to the fact that black kids could not act up in public back then. Temper tantrums and stuff like that WERE NOT PERMITTED. Especially around white people. There were so many rules in society, especially in the south that blacks just had to know. There were rules in society that if a white person was walking on the same sidewalk as a black, the black man would either have to walk in the grass or stop and let the white man/women pass. Additionally, there were society rules that black people couldn't look a white person in the eye because blacks were not seen as equals.. For a black man to look a white man in the eye was justifiable grounds for a serious beating and even a hanging back then. How do you teach your child rules like that and make it STICK. I guess with whippings and threats of whippings. I don't know...something to ponder. |
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JustMusic101 |
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Posts: 14876 (06/27/2009 10:43 PM) |
I'm gonna back away from the computer right now after reading that mess.
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PreggyJolie |
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Posts: 8038 (06/27/2009 10:46 PM) |
They're Jehovah's witnesses their out look on death is very diffrent from other's..
He treated mike badly as a child, he teased him about his nose everything..I feel very bad for the mom the most! I LOVE U MIKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Cloud8226 |
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Posts: 98 (06/27/2009 11:03 PM) |
tekaye wrote: Yes, and the other children AND Katherine. He also cheated on her. In fact, there is a story that many, many years ago Katherine along with Janet and a couple of the other siblings actually gave a beat down to one of his mistresses for something she pulled. Again, I have zero sympathy for this man. |
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caryse |
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Posts: 764 (06/27/2009 11:14 PM) |
franknbeans82 wrote:Exactly. And I'm trying hard not to judge, because obviously its a very difficult time for the family, but that smile seems a little too genuine and carefree. I guess everyone grieves differently, but I would personally be in seclusion for days (with swollen eyes from crying nonstop) if a loved one died young and unexpectedly. This behavior seems strange to me. Then again, the Jacksons are strange. 
I was a little taken aback by these photos, to be honest. |
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ILuvToShop |
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Posts: 385 (06/27/2009 11:16 PM) |
I was just watching the interview with Michael that aired in 2003 and he talked about his dad standing there with a belt when they were praticing their dance
moves. He hit them if they messed up.
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moussemaker |
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Posts: 18128 (06/27/2009 11:19 PM) |
Michael first spoke openly about his childhood abuse in a 1993 interview with Oprah Winfrey. He said that during his childhood he often cried from loneliness and would sometimes get sick
or start to vomit upon seeing his father.
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Gidget |
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Posts: 919 (06/27/2009 11:23 PM) |
Janet and the mom beat up a mistress because she had his daughter.
you never saw her though. |
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 vanessa bauer |
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Posts: 5420 (06/27/2009 11:31 PM) |
As much as I dislike this man for what he did to his kids---I love him for creating them. Without him and without him pushing his kids---we would have NEVER gotten the music we all know and love. |
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franknbeans82 |
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Posts: 30813 (06/27/2009 11:40 PM) |
itsjustcris wrote:i don't agree w/ the racial part. as the child of two black parents who grew up in the same time as michael jackson, i can say that neither of them had to be kept in line w/ punishments severe enough that they recalled them as abuse. i think that's sort of a copout explanation of joe's treatment of his children. i think he was an unreasonably strict and sometimes cruel stage parent and control freak. |
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itsjustcris |
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Posts: 149 (06/27/2009 11:49 PM) |
JustMusic101 wrote:I assume your talking about what I wrote...I wasn't saying anything to be disrespectful or ignorant. Its just when I think about Joe Jackson's "discipline" (which is what he calls it) I always think back to my research on what goes/went on in some black homes....Not saying that's exactly what fueled Joe, put maybe it was part of it....who knows. I'm also not saying that all black people discipline their kids in that manner. I've just always been interested in the topic. Because what would be considered child abuse, for some (definitely not all) would just be considered ordinary discipline for some blacks. Oh and when I mention research, I've just done basic research because I wanted to write a law review article on the subject. Anyhow, back to MJ, understanding his situation is difficult...especially right now. But either way, with Michael it was a terrible situation. He really was scared of his father and never got over what was done to him. It's a sad situation all around  and I truly miss that man.
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franknbeans82 |
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Posts: 30818 (06/27/2009 11:53 PM) |
^
i don't think a majority of black boomers experienced punishment as severe as what occured in the jackson home. i don't think that was a common, cultural norm, or else you'd hear more 50-something blacks describing their youthood punishments as abuse. kwim?
Edited By: franknbeans82
06/27/2009 11:55 PM.
Edited 1 times.
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itsjustcris |
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Posts: 150 (06/28/2009 12:02 AM) |
franknbeans82 wrote:I definitely agree that he crossed the line in many respects..many, many respects. I just thought maybe his upbringing could explain part of what he did...not all of course. Cause aren't we all products of are upbringings? Now granted, maybe his parents didn't do that...I don't know. But if they did, why and were they a product of that? That's all I'm saying. |
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itsjustcris |
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Posts: 151 (06/28/2009 12:21 AM) |
franknbeans82 wrote:Definitely not majority...that's why I said "some." Jermaine Jackson has also stated that what they experienced was no different than what other black households experienced (Of course he didn't mean all black households...but a good amount). I can tell you that I was the product of it at the hands of my father. He was a part of it at the hands of his father. That's why I became interested in the subject. Now was it as bad as what Joe did...I don't know, b/c I wasn't in their household, but my experience was pretty darn bad. I spoke to others around my age (80's child) and my parents age (45-60) and some of them had experiences as mine...others, their experiences were not as "harsh." Either way, a good deal of them explained they thought they were spanked (or disciplined) the way they were because of black societal roles. Who knows. I'm just simply stating what I came up with. Now I'm no professional researcher on psychological stuff lol, I was just wanted to write an article. I ended up writing a different article (focusing on segregation) because this topic was based to much on societal principles than legal. Also, I'm black (and from the deep south) so I'm not totally on the outside of the situation looking in. My research is based on some real life experiences as well.
Edited By: itsjustcris
06/28/2009 12:27 AM.
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integritycounts |
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Posts: 1546 (06/28/2009 4:09 PM) |
i think this proves that you can not discipline every child the same. what works for one, may cause permanent mental/emotional damage to the other.
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franknbeans82 |
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Posts: 30830 (06/28/2009 4:15 PM) |
itsjustcris wrote:i understand that a lot of black parents may have been very strict back then, but i still disagree that it was a common occurrence or a societal standard for black parents to give their children borderline abusive punishments. btw, i am also a black 80s baby. |
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Tyler16 Tyler 16 |
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Posts: 3106 (06/28/2009 4:16 PM) |
Scorp wrote: |
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misstypea |
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Posts: 674 (06/28/2009 4:56 PM) |
He looks like a frog.
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bonita1985 |
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Posts: 328 (06/28/2009 11:18 PM) |
i dont feel anything for a father that does all that to a poor little boy.
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